|  | Topic : What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? |  |
| | | ironjack64 | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/07/2013 | | Posts | : | 38 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 25 Aug 2014 - 16:19 Post title : What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? | | | I was thinking trading my 2012 Thunderbird in on a Trophy SE, and called a dealer in South Texas for some initial information. I was shocked to see that there is almost no market for Triumphs. This dealership is selling brand new 2013 Thunderbirds still in the crates for $11,100. My bike is worth way less than what I was anticipating. I was so shocked that I started looking at other dealers in Texas, and almost across the board, they are marking new Triumphs way down - in most cases, about $3000 less than the list price. I guess Harley has done it's job, because everyone seems to be spending thousands more on a comparable Harley than buying a better bike in the form of a Thunderbird.
|
|
| | | edbob | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 04/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 931 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 25 Aug 2014 - 16:28 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: ironjack64) | | | It may be Indian that is stealing the thunder. People will buy Harley no matter what. The Thunderbird and Triumph's other cruisers is part of the market for 'unHarley' cruisers. The Indian sensation may also be part of what's taking the thunder out of Thunderbird sales. Sad to hear.
| "You will ride eternal shiny and chrome"
|
|
| | | ironjack64 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/07/2013 | | Posts | : | 38 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 25 Aug 2014 - 20:42 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: edbob) | | | Indian is not yet a factor in Texas. From all that I see and hear from the dealers, it is the Harley mystique that drives most people to the HD bikes.
|
|
| | | intimidator32 | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2012 | | Posts | : | 913 | | Location | : | lexington, ky, United States |
|
| | Posted : 25 Aug 2014 - 21:45 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: ironjack64) | | | Jack, triumph needs to market the fact that the parallel twin doesn't roast your package like the v-twins do and in particularly Harleys and of all places Texas
| currently on a slow Harley but will have another Triumph eventually 
|
|
| | | Agent86 | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 17/02/2012 | | Posts | : | 361 | | Location | : | Australia |
|
| | Posted : 25 Aug 2014 - 22:32 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: intimidator32) | | | Harley does indeed do their job very very well, who else could sell an inferior product at an elevated price & sell shit loads of them. Just proves there are so many sheep in this world. It's true a Harley buyer will buy a Harley no matter what, it seems to be the mentality of the majority of Harley riders.
| Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity .
2012 storm, re - ground cams, ported head, power commander, short tors, high flow filter & Meerkat cat bypass..
|
|
| | | vito | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/04/2014 | | Posts | : | 97 | | Location | : | Rockford, Illinois, United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 17:05 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: Agent86) | | | It seems especially surprising in Texas, which has a large military and ex-military population. When I bought my 2013 Thunderbird new in April of this year, I received the $1,000 off as an ex-military member. My T-bird came with the touring package of the detachable windscreen, leather bags, passenger backrest, luggage rack and the dealer gave me a cash credit for not wanting the rider floorboards. The bike cost me $8,000 plus my 2011 America (which had a Kelly Blue Book value of $4,200 for trade-in) so I guess I paid $12,200 total for this bike. Any comparable Harley would have been at least $3,000 or $4,000 more, and any Indian more than that. FWIW, my 2011 America is still sitting on the dealer showroom floor with a $7,000 price tag.
| Retired
|
|
| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,831 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 17:58 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: edbob) | | | Agreed, but it's not just Indian stealing Harley's thunder, it's Polaris.
The new Indians are spectacular, Victory has proven itself, dealers for each are popping up like mushrooms. Prices will be the final straw, Harley has to be competitive - but that's just the Harley market, mostly American V-twin cruisers.
There are those of us who are just as dedicated to Triumph, too; I'm on my 4th. Almost without exception, bikers here in the States have fond opinions and experience with Triumph - there is no downside to owning one, far as I can tell.
| 
|
|
| | | daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,695 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 18:08 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? | | | Look at triumph cruisers in general, at least in the USA. NONE of them sell. In the 4 years i had a speedmaster i saw something like 3 others, and i'm in a major city, L.A. Same with my Thunderbird in the 5 years i've had it. The rocket? I think I've seen 2 or 3 the whole time i had my speedy and Tbird.
In that same time I've seen hundreds or 1000's of bonnevilles. I'm not sure how triumph doesn't drop the cruiser line altogether, but i imagine it must be that they sell much better in other countries. I've said it countless times since the first time i saw it said that triumph is trying to compete with HD.....it will never happen. The #1 reason people buy HD's is the one thing triumph cannot compete with. The HD mentality. If the Tbird were even twice the bike that it is now it still wouldn't. Look at the Vrod...it even has the HD name yet the vast majority of HD riders will have nothing to do with it because the engine was designed by Porsche or some car company, so to them it's just not HD. So when someone wants a cruiser they go with HD, and if they don't care about HD they go with victory or a jap V. They want HD first and foremost, but barring that they want a V. the triumphs are neither. They will never compete or sell like other cruisers. When it comes to traditional designs, people buy bikes from the company they see as a originator of that type. Thats why probably the biggest seller triumph has is the bonnie, certainly the biggest seller of all the more traditional bikes (meaning non sport bikes) they have.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
| | | bnz433 | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/06/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,842 | | Location | : | Clifton Park (Upstate), NY, United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 19:24 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: daz) | | | Daz - while I mostly agree (re: HD mentality), I think the bigger failure is Triumph's marketing. The Bonnies sell themselves based on being quite similar to the Triumph the diehards grew up with. The Tbird and R3, on the other hand, are vastly different. And since most "cruiser guys" still don't even know that Triumph makes a bike bigger than 800cc, they go with the Victory, now Indian or any host of Asian alternative V-twins.
Someplace on here, someone had posted some data. I wonder what the Thunderbird line is up to in terms of a) total unit sales, and b) sales by country/region??? Grant it, it won't be at HD levels, but they wouldn't still be making them if they weren't making money off of them.
Jamie
EDIT - for data junkies (like me). Doesn't get to Bird-specifics, but lots of market based comparisons, etc.
Link
| Bennington Triumph Bash - 31May-2June 2019. Home of the (tied in '14 & '15) US RECORD T-BIRD FLOCKING!!!!!
Link
| | Post edited by bnz433 on 03 Sep 2014 - 19:38 |
|
| | | KingOfFleece | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 30/09/2009 | | Posts | : | 304 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 19:38 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: bnz433) | | | Triumph USA fired the ex Harley guy they hired around two years ago recently. That tells me sales were not what they were led to believe.
|
|
| | | KingOfFleece | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 30/09/2009 | | Posts | : | 304 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 19:41 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: KingOfFleece) | | | Also
Several years ago when the 'Bird was out for the first year we had a trade-in SuperGlide and a demo 'Bird avail to ride.
Must have put 20 riders on them-ride one and then swap and ride the other. Tell what bike is better....................that kind of thing.
At the end of the day everyone thought the 'Bird was the superior bike-but we sold the SuperGlide. Go figure.
|
|
| | | bnz433 | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/06/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,842 | | Location | : | Clifton Park (Upstate), NY, United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 19:53 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: KingOfFleece) | | | And a few years before the Bird came out, in 2009, Triumph was thrilled to sell 10000 TOTAL bikes in the US. They set the mark to beat the 1960's Bonnie record of 25000 bikes in the US within 5 years. That would have been 2010/11 timeframe from the time of that survey data.
Back then, 1000 R3's was a huge deal. So to figure that 1000 new Birds per year, since production, we're really only looking at about 4-5000 total Thunderbirds throughout the US. Not surprising given that we have a tough time getting more than 10-15 Birds together in one group.
Jamie
PS - above data is anecdotal, and paraphrased from a Google search the result in a T-rat forum post.
| Bennington Triumph Bash - 31May-2June 2019. Home of the (tied in '14 & '15) US RECORD T-BIRD FLOCKING!!!!!
Link
| | Post edited by bnz433 on 03 Sep 2014 - 19:56 |
|
| | | n2dwind | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 405 | | Location | : | Jupiter, Florida, United States |
|
| | Posted : 03 Sep 2014 - 23:15 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: ironjack64) | | |
ironjack64 wrote:
I was thinking trading my 2012 Thunderbird in on a Trophy SE, and called a dealer in South Texas for some initial information. I was shocked to see that there is almost no market for Triumphs. This dealership is selling brand new 2013 Thunderbirds still in the crates for $11,100. My bike is worth way less than what I was anticipating. I was so shocked that I started looking at other dealers in Texas, and almost across the board, they are marking new Triumphs way down - in most cases, about $3000 less than the list price. I guess Harley has done it's job, because everyone seems to be spending thousands more on a comparable Harley than buying a better bike in the form of a Thunderbird. |
|
The Triumph Dealer here in Pompano Beach has a couple of new 2013's on the floor priced at $10,500.00. When it was time for the 24,000 mile service I really was considering selling my 2010 and putting a couple of grand with it to buy a new one. What stopped me was the price I could get for mine. After a few inquires at the local motorcycle shops and at some bike night rallies I found out that the most anyone would give me for it was about $6,500.00.
I decided to keep it until I get a few more years on these old legs and the value gets so low I'll just give it to my son as a present.
|
|
| | | Agent86 | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 17/02/2012 | | Posts | : | 361 | | Location | : | Australia |
|
| | Posted : 04 Sep 2014 - 00:13 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: KingOfFleece) | | | KingOfFleece wrote:
Also
Several years ago when the 'Bird was out for the first year we had a trade-in SuperGlide and a demo 'Bird avail to ride.
Must have put 20 riders on them-ride one and then swap and ride the other. Tell what bike is better....................that kind of thing.
At the end of the day everyone thought the 'Bird was the superior bike-but we sold the SuperGlide. Go figure. |
|
While I do believe Triumphs marketing is very poor i wonder even with better marketing how effective it would be against the so called Harley mentality in the USA atleast. Here in Australia Harley is the biggest seller in the cruiser market also but we seem to be a little more likely to consider another option, while I don't know the sales figures I do see quiet a few thunder birds getting around, perhaps this is because we don't build any & all our bikes are imported so the patriotism factor isn't there so strongly for us. But yes I know personally Harley riders that have ridden birds / rockets & reluctantly said they thought they are superior machines but still wouldn't consider buying one over their beloved Harley's. I can't really think of any other product sold where this phenomena is so strong. Harley have sold their product extremely well.
| Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity .
2012 storm, re - ground cams, ported head, power commander, short tors, high flow filter & Meerkat cat bypass..
| | Post edited by Agent86 on 04 Sep 2014 - 00:16 |
|
| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,831 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
|
| | Posted : 04 Sep 2014 - 01:30 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: Agent86) | | | Wouldn't hurt Triumph to do some advertising, that's for sure.
"It's a Triumph? I didn't know they were still in business." That's what I hear most often.
There are vertical twins, horizontal twins, in-line 3s, 4s and 6s. The 41-degree V-twin is probably one of the least logical configurations, giving rise to "knife and fork" rods, cooling issues, vibration, weird timing, on and on..... Must've driven the Japanese crazy when they realized there was no breaking into the Harley market without a sideways 40-something V-twin - and even the look-alikes couldn't do it.
Indian, on the other hand, can - and will - do serious damage to the Harley market.
I see Harley as a subset of the Cruiser market (albeit a big one); they certainly don't define it. There are too many other big bikes out there, including the Thunderbird, that make no attempt to copy the Harley V-twin configuration. They compete in the Cruiser market as alternatives to the Harley, not as copies.
Harley is rapidly approaching crunch time here (where they lack "imported/exotic" status), and they seem to be on the horns of a dilemma. Updating/improving the line (V-rod) offends the purists, but they can't stick with the old Harley design much longer or they'll be left behind.
|
|
|
| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,695 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 04 Sep 2014 - 02:09 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: KingOfFleece) | | |
KingOfFleece wrote:
At the end of the day everyone thought the 'Bird was the superior bike-but we sold the SuperGlide. Go figure. |
|
See, thats exactly what i'm saying. Thats 100% proof it's not triumph's marketing. No amount of marketing will ever compete with putting the potential HD rider in the saddle of a Tbird. Yet even that, THE best way to sell one has them buying the HD instead. Theres no arguing the point....triumph fails to compete because of that HD mentality and there is NO way to fight that.
Does anyone remember that cycle mag shootout between several cruisers with the Tbird and a HD being two of them where one of the testers summed it up like this? Paraphrasing here.....
| The triumph is certainly the better bike. Better power, handling, braking. But in the end we chose the HD. Why? Because it'sa a harley |
|
Thats basically what he said and it yet again proves that HD cannot be competed with. You can't compete with a philosophy thats held as gospel by those who buy harleys. It's like telling you we're going to replace your mother with one who is THE perfect mother.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
| | | BlueNose | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/09/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,478 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 04 Sep 2014 - 07:46 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: daz) | | | Harley is a lifestyle brand and the marketers focus on developing that. Triumph see themselves as an engineering business with an ineffective marketing machine behind them. As a consequence they lose sales, especially in the US. They haven't embraced the custom market directly, leaving everyone to fend for themselves. The bikes are brilliant when compared to others but their marketing/outlook is probably the least effective of all of the major bike brands.
They do recognise this and are working on plans to deliver more of custom scene to their classics and customs. Some of the custom work done on the Bonneville range is fantastic (especially in Italy and France) and Triumph have woken up to the idea that this is where they need to be.
As for cruisers, they are a long way off cracking the code. Lifestyle (HOG), too powerful (those power output figures on Harleys are woeful), made in America (Triumph are No1 here in the UK), the V'Twin thing or the combination of everything. They don't sell the cruiser range in anything like the numbers they should. It's a shame as the best bikes on the planet are Rocket Roadster, Speedmaster and the Storm but then I have no desire to be a HOG.
|
|
| | | edbob | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 04/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 931 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 04 Sep 2014 - 17:10 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: BlueNose) | | | Well put. Marketing is key. You can have the best product (and triumph really do in many ways), but if it's not presented correctly and to the right group, nobody is going to buy it. What I would like to see from triumph is a rocketIII variant about 200 lbs less, and much less bloated in appearance. Still would be a heavy weight standard, but with some real muscle to throw around. That would be uniquely triumph and sell in their own niche. Don't let us down Triumph!
| "You will ride eternal shiny and chrome"
|
|
| | | SmokinLoon | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/06/2012 | | Posts | : | 154 | | Location | : | South Dakota, United States |
|
| | Posted : 15 Oct 2014 - 04:17 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: ironjack64) | | | Triumph is a fucked up company. They have a superb product and a bunch of air heads in marketing. Not having Triumph at Sturgis at all this year ('14), show casing the new Thunderbird models (and Storm) really hit me right between the eyes.
The wanker in charge of marketing needs to be tased and tossed to the curb.
| I notice when I arrive at a typical rally all of the HD riders bow down down out of respect. My friend (an HD rider) says that I'm mistaken and that the HD guys are bending over to pick up rocks to throw at me. Thankfully, I have yet to be hit by a rock and if need be I can out run them all. 
| | Post edited by SmokinLoon on 15 Oct 2014 - 04:18 |
|
| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
|
| | Posted : 15 Oct 2014 - 04:52 Post title : Re: What happened to Triumph sales in Texas? (Re: SmokinLoon) | | | The same thing happened at Laconia N.H. this year with most of the motorcycle manufacturers,and, the aftermarket vendors.My understanding was, the town jacked the price up so high for their little rented spots, that they all said to hell with it,as it just wasn't worth it.However,the T shirts, sold by the town, were selling,but,for big bucks.So either the towns are getting greedy [what else is new],or ,they don't want these events there anymore.  Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 15 Oct 2014 - 04:56 |
|
|
| |
| |
|